I’ve had several emails over the course of the past week, and all asking me the same question… do I think Auto Bet System X-IV by Grey Samuels is a scam.
…youve got to see this video Paul, its a joke! would you buy a used car from this bloke? haha looks like Arthur daley or Del Boy lol are you going to do a review?
The video that’s being referred to in that message is currently promoting the latest version of a betting product from a guy going by the name of Grey Samuels, and you can watch it here
Grey Samuels - should we trust everything he says?
The footage starts off with the sharp-suited, mirror-shades-wearing Grey Samuels character getting out of an Aston Martin. He goes on to paint a picture of what it would be like to get up in the morning and check your betting account, to see that it has grown in value yet again, and all thanks to his product. It’s certainly a gripping story.
What I think is important to recognise here, is that when it comes to marketing, all too often there are often several degrees of separation between marketing and product. Let me explain…
Your typical car advertisment depicts a lone car cruising along an empty highway which sweeps through an awe-inspiring landscape on a gloriously sunny day. In reality, when seen in our own cars, we are often stuck in a traffic jam on the way to work on a grey rainy Tuesday in Hull (no offence meant if you live in Hull, but you did vote it the worst town in Britain).
There is currently a pizza advertisement on the TV which shows pizzas being served, [cliched Italian accent] “just-a like-a Mama used-a to make-a dem” In small print at the end of the advert we learn the pizzas are made in Germany.
Does this mean car manufacturers and global food groups are misleading us? Are we being scammed? In my opinion, technically ‘yes’ we are.
The thing is, a great deal of marketing is aspirational, and takes advantage of the fact that most of us are aspirational too. We all want to be better, we all want an improved lifestyle, we all want more than we currently have. That is partly what has led us to our current economic situation (but that’s another soap-box for another day!)
Maslow talked about basic needs, one of which is to be accepted by your peers. That is why we all want to be part of a crowd, and that is what fuels Facebook and Twitter. Do we need an oversized iPod that isn’t a laptop, costs £500 and is simply waiting to be dropped? No, we want an iPad because everyone else (so we are led to believe) has got one, and it’s “cool”.
Marketers show us what we want to see. This is because, within guidelines set out by regulatory authorities, marketers are allowed to show us what we want, rather than what they are actually selling.
I digress, what about Auto Bet System X–IV, is it a scam?
Having hopefully distinguished between marketing and product, let me give you my thoughts on the sales page promoting this product.
On the page we are shown a series of screenshots from Grey’s NatWest bank statements. These show amounts supposedly transferred from Betfair. However, the details are deliberately blurred out. The question I ask myself is, if they are genuine transfers from Betfair, why obscure the details?
A description of a transfer from Betfair is actually quite long. It starts first with a reference number, then a date, then BETFAIR REFUNDS, INTERNET GB, REFUND
I am more inclined to think these deposits are actually transfers from the seller’s Clickbank account (Clickbank is a payment processor used by many betting systems vendors). These deposits show on your bank statement as follows…. CLICK SALES INC., KEYNETICS
Have a look at the sales page, and I’ll leave you to decide which of those text strings is actually behind the pixelated images on Grey’s bank statement.
Does Grey Samuels use fake screenshots? I’m not 100% convinced either way, but what leaves me in doubt is why anyone would hide something in a screen shot, that might otherwise add credibility?
OK, we may or may not be comfortable with the validity of the images, but what about Grey Samuels himself, and that car?
Personally, the style of the video simply does not appeal to me. I think it is corny, camp, cheesy, embarrassing. That’s simply my opinion, and it puts me off right away. Maybe I just don’t “get it” and the marketing is meant to be tongue-in-cheek. Others will possibly have a different view.
Grey tells us he is sick to the teeth of people making promises of “instant thousands overnight”. How refreshing it is to see Grey being so conservative with a claim of £21,417.22 in 27 days – so much easier to swallow!
But just because the marketing used to promote a product is cheesy and possibly not 100% reflective of the actual product, does that mean it is a scam?
Yes Paul, you were supposed to be telling us about Auto Bet X-IV, is it a scam?
Well, here is where I have to confess that I haven’t even seen the product….
…but let me tell you why…
Having watched the promotional video, I approached Grey Samuels with a view to having one of my readers conduct a review of the product. However, I explained to Grey that it had been brought to my attention that certain aspects of the video were questionable.
Grey replied that it was indeed him in the video, that there were no actors involved, and that he was indeed called Grey Samuels. I asked him to confirm and prove his identity, which under the circumstances I thought was a reasonable request. I suggested a simple and indisputable solution would be to make a quick and private video for my eyes only, showing some form of photo ID such as a passport.
Indeed I asked Grey on three separate occasions if he was prepared to confirm his identity. After my third request, and much irritating deflection from him more appropriate of a politian seeking to avoid an awkward or embarrassing question, this was his shocking reply….
I think you need to move away from this demanding passports and videos, it is absurd and quite apparent that there is no need for me to prove anything to you.
Of course, everybody is perfectly within their rights to wish to maintain their privacy. And I may have what many consider to be an ’old-school’ attitude. But I do not take kindly to the contemptuous tone of such a response.
I would hazard an educated guess, based upon experience, that Auto Bet System X–IV might break even over an extended period. Like any other method and betting system, it will have winning streaks, and losing runs. If you twisted my arm, I would even go so far as to say you would probably lose a small fraction of your betting bank over the course of a full season.
So is Auto Bet System X – IV a scam? That all depends on whether you expect the marketing to depict with 100% accuracy and clarity the product in question. It depends on whether you expect the seller to be genuine and honest, and to demonstrate beyond doubt his credibility when pressed.
If you are of the opinion that marketers should be allowed a certain degree of, shall we call it ‘poetic license’, and that we are all worldly-wise adults capable of making sensible purchase decisions, then ‘no’ this is not a scam.
In an effort to move beyond the ‘scam’ word, which is used with such gay abandon in our industry, is Auto Bet X-IV worth a place in your betting arsenal, and worth an investment of your cash? Maybe. It is sold via Clickbank so you have an unconditional 60 day money-back guarantee. You’re not going to lose any money if you buy the product and paper-trade it for 59 days, before claiming a refund.
But personally I would be reluctant to give my business to someone who describes as “absurd” the request of a potential customer for reassurance the seller is genuine and honest. That kind of disrespect and contempt does not sit well with me.
There are reviews of this product going on elsewhere on other review web sites. What do you think of my attitude to this seller? Am I right to hold certain principles true, or would you react differently? I’d be interested in your feedback.
Related posts:
As a full Member of ABSX & ABSX IV I dont understand what your problem is,All the other crap on the market and you go ahead and review it and promote it,Then along comes a System that truly works and you seem against it or is putting you out of pocket somehow,The system is based on different methods of betting,stats,where to look for value and the support you get from Grey & his team is second to none,Id recommend ABSX to anyone who really wants to make a profit out of Horse Racing
I have bought 100′s of systems and wasted 100′s of pounds and finally found my Holy Grail Of Horse Racing
Ray
Hi Ray, thanks for your comments and for putting forward the view of a subscriber to the product. I’m sure you’ve looked over the article, but I’m not entirely sure you’ve actually read what I am saying? I haven’t reviewed the product, because I haven’t seen it, and I state that quite clearly. The article concerns the sales page for the product, and the style of marketing used to promote the product. Questions have been raised surrounding the validity of the content published on that sales page, and so far Grey Samuels has not only failed to answer those questions, but positively refused to answer them.
I’m sure you wouldn’t wish to criticise me for investigating the truth on behalf of other readers?
I cannot comment with any authority on the product itself, and my article leaves the reader to draw their own conclusions on that score. I don’t have any problem with ABSX. My issue lies with the promotional content of the sales web page, and the seller’s attitude towards someone asking questions.
Although your comment about what is promoted on this site is aside from this topic, and is similar to the tactics already used by Mr Samuels to deflect any criticism, I should like to point out that I do not promote any (to use your words) “crap”. Any betting systems or services that receive a recommendation here, of which there are very few indeed, have been put through a period of test. Even then they are recommended only to be evaluated further by paper-trading. You may like to read the ‘About’ page for clarification.
Indeed the main message behind this here web site, is that you should try and develop your own strategies, rather than relying on commercially available advice.
I’m glad you are succeeding with ABSX and I am sure that in time product reviews on other web sites may reinforce your support.
I contacted Grey Samuels earlier today, inviting him to comment here, explaining I would sincerely love to be proven wrong about him. And I will be the first to hold up my hands and admit my concerns and doubts about him are unnecessary, if he can answer some or all of the questions raised by my article. But so far, as you can see, he has yet to reply. I’m positive he will in due course.
So to summarize, I don’t have a problem with ABSX, but instead with the methods employed to promote it. Many will argue the marketing is irrelevent if the product delivers, and to a certain extent I agree with that argument.
For your part Ray, and most importantly as you are a punter just like the rest of us, I’m pleased you have found your Holy Grail Of Horse Racing. Long may it continue.
I too am a member of Grey Samuels’ ABSX and had no problem with the style of marketing OR the sales page.
I found the style of marketing to be genuine and non professional (a bit clumsy perhaps) – which is what you would expect from someone who is convinced about their product and didn’t have a big team behind them (all the energy is put into the PRODUCT, NOT the sales).
I have a seen lot of products sold by slick marketing (as I’m sure you have also) and have been conned out of my money enough times to be very wary of any claims made and the slicker the marketing the more wary I am.
I, too, would object to someone I didn’t even know demanding “proof” of who I am – that’s very high handed and downright arrogant. I understand you have an obligation to your readers, but diplomacy goes a long way and just because people don’t like someones look on video or the way their first attempt at marketing goes, or even if they think the validity of the content on the publishing page may be a bit suss, it still gives no one the right to start arrogantly demanding proof.
We have ALL been ripped off (and I understand you are just trying to protect your own) and are all understandably wary and pissed off at the amount of products and emails received all trying to con us out of our hard earned, with the promise of easy money and once bought the vendor seems to disappear only to resurface later with a new product and brand new data supporting it. WE ARE ALL SICK OF IT, but there is still no need to denigrate someone who is genuinly trying to show us a product they truly believe in.
Grey Samuels is so positive about his product, he sits and bets with you during the races (all members using his product) and there is a constant discussion via the members forum between him and all the members during the racing period.
Call me silly, but the vendor using his own product, putting his money down with you AND giving you advise – how good is that.
The product speaks for itself – not the sales pitch.
Hi Preston, thanks for coming onto the blog to give us your views. I do appreciate that people will wish to maintain some privacy. But when you put yourself forward as a vendor online, I would suggest you do have to take on a degree of responsibility, ethically at least, and a degree of transparency. If you have a complaint in a shop, and ask to see the Manager, as a customer you’re going to be offended and disappointed if he/she refuses to come out from the back-office, aren’t you?
I don’t think it is high-handed and arrogant to want to know where your money is going.
I have not “demanded” anything of Grey Samuels – I am not in a position to demand anything from him. However, I did (politely) ask him if he was prepared to confirm his identity. No threats, no ultimatum.
You could not be aware of this Preston, but I have been privy to some quite damning evidence about Grey Samuels, which goes beyond questioning whether he is who he says he is. I did not ask for any proof of identity on a whim, nor simply because I did not like his look on video.
From what you say, you appear to think it is OK if the content published on a sales page is “a bit suss”. At least, you think we should give the seller the benefit of the doubt. That’s an interesting view. Personally, I do not think it is OK.
Hi Paul,
Just want to add my own experience for you, as it just shows how a subtle, fair and unbiased approach gets far greater results than what appears to be your own somewhat harsh and intrusive method of obtaining information.
I too am aware of all the ‘cufuffle’ that Greys’ sales video has caused and to be honest have no idea why this particular sales page/video has been treated with as much contempt as it has. OK the guy is a bit flash with his Aston Martin roaring away at the end and his ‘ray-bans’glimmering in what looks like the early morning dusk, but hey, what the hell, ‘if you’ve got it, flaunt it’ as they say. The video IS cheesy I will admit, but this guy is NOT Al Pacino and behaves exactly as one would expect an amateur actor to behave on film, that is, slightly overacting to get his point across. You could say exactly the same thing for about 99% of the sales videos we see on the internet these days.
(by the way, I trained for 3 years as a classical actor so I know what I’m talking about)
As for the business of asking for passport details and the like, I too would have told you where to go my friend!
Now as for communicating to someone in a polite fashion with a polite request- this works!
Grey was only to pleased to offer me full access to his product and site after several emails between us for sole purpose of finding out exactly what was on offer and how good OR bad this product actually was. We have been in touch frequently since and he has absolutely no problem in answering any PERTINENT questions about his service and product, and will always give a full and detailed analysis of the point in question.
Finally, in answer to your question, your ‘attitude to your seller’ needs some close scrutiny. I would suggest a course in manners would be a start!
RB.
Now the important point about all of this is, does the product live up to the so-called hype surrounding it?
The answer has to be an astounding, YES! You just have to take a look at the members comments each day to realize this to be true. Ok, I have only been around the place myself for a week or so, but the results have been quite remarkable to say the least, with profits made each day, just as quoted in the ‘cheesy’ video.
Hello Sir, it is very encouraging to see such a lot of support from ABSX customers.
Whatever my approach (and I hasten to add, you are making plenty of assumptions about how I have corresponded with Grey Samuels, I have only ever been polite and made requests, no demands, no lack of manners) questions still remain unanswered, and despite such an inspiring show of solidarity from his members, I am still disappointed that Grey has not answered these questions.
My issue, and I say this again, is not with the product, it is not with the flash car nor the amateur acting… I agree with you, if you’ve got it, why not flaunt it? I don’t care if it is an actor in the video. But please, you need to stop straying from the point I am trying to make… my point is that evidence has been presented elsewhere, that Grey Samuels may not be who he says he is, and that some promotional information about the product may be fake and mis-leading. Surely I cannot be criticised for wanting to know the truth, on behalf of other punters?
If anything, I am trying to give Grey Samuels the opportunity to demonstrate everything you, and your fellow members, are saying.
And I should like to clarify, because this seems to be a point laboured upon, I have not asked Grey for his passport details – I asked for proof of identity to be afforded to me, privately, and suggested some form of photo ID, for example a passport. I think it is fairly obvious, all we want to see is something with a photo of Grey Samuels on it. It could just as easily be his library card!
Hi Paul,
Well guess what I’m also a subscriber to ABSX.. So I won’t mention the amount of money others are making from this service or the fact that one guy actually increased his bank by 130% yesterday. Personally I did crap and only increased my bank by 16% because I stopped betting early.
So looking at your reply to Ray what you are saying is that you are quite willing to ridicule somebody because of the way that they market their product? Interesting approach. Don’t you think that you would have gained a little more credibility if you had done a thorough job and actually purchased it, then fully assessed it then wrote a blog. After all you have 60 days and at the end you can get every penny back, I’ve got my money back on many occasions from products that have failed. I’m quite sure I’ll not be asking for my money in this case.
Now in your blog you said that you had not actually used the product. Fair enough, at that point you should have stopped writing. The thing is from where I’m sitting you did not buy it to evaluate it because you thought that because you have a blog and are someone important you should have a free copy. Because you did not get your free copy you wrote such drivel. Now can you see I’m doing exactly what you did. I could be completely wrong about you just like you are about ABSX.
I’ll help you out for the future. If you are going to review a system, one or two lines about the marketing will suffice, but get into the product and tell people about that, after all that is what they are really interested in.
BJ
Hello BJ, I think I’ve covered most of your comments in previous replies. I don’t think I have ridiculed anybody, and that’s certainly not the object of the article. The piece talks about marketing in general, but clearly with the promotion of ABSX as a pertinent case in point. I would agree with you entirely about purchasing/obtaining a copy of the product, were I looking to review the product. But the article does not set out to review the product, nor does it attempt to.
There will be several product reviews about ABSX on other web sites soon.
What is interesting is how such a number of people, who have never visited, read, or come across my web site before, have found this article and taken the trouble to write, at great length, supporting Grey Samuels and ABSX. All credit to you. I have to say, chances are I may be wrong about Grey, and I guess its just a matter of time before he comes on here personally to prove beyond doubt what everyone else is saying?
Hi Paul,
Thank you for your reply. I doubt Grey Samuals will take the time to come on here because mainly two reasons, firstly he does not need to prove himself to anybody except his customers and if you were privy to the forums let me assure you that you would be left in no doubt whatsoever.
Secondly he is pretty busy on the forums reading and answering questions not only about his methodology but horse racing in general.
It pleased me to see that at least you are man enough to admit that you might be wrong. I’d like to ask you have you had any emails contradicting what me and some other customers of the ABSX have been saying. I’ve not seen any on your blog which if this was a scam would you not expect to see at least one comment from an unsatisfactory customer.
It is also interesting how differently people see things as well. When I first saw Grey’s add I thought to myself there is something strangely honest about the add. Was that Grey in the add, well having corresponded with him both in the forums and emails and having watched his videos on ABSX web site there is no doubt in my mind that the guy who I first saw is the guy that I’m dealing with now and let me assure you that I am not alone in that opinion.
Surely as far as Grey is concerned that should suffice for him. For that reason I doubt you will ever see him here as he has rather a lot of loyal and very pleased customers to deal with.
BJ
anyone who buys rubbish like this deserves what they get. go to horseracebase or adrian massey and create your own systems, its not too difficult, and stop giving money to these conmen even if it means taking money from the good guys, which there arent many! Dave
Great post – I love it when these con artists get caught out. Grey Samuels or whoever you are, time to go back to your day job lol
I think what Grey Samuels is doing is dispicable. I should like to congratulate Paul on bringing this matter to everyone’s attention. In Australia where I am from originally, tipsters are far less common. Generally punters spend more time studying form and coming to their own conclusions, rather than paying for tips.
Does anyone else agree that the most satisfying way of trying to make a profit from betting, is to do it on your own?
That said, I think it is admirable what you guys are doing on this site to help punters, and if only there were more sites around like this. Saves the punters a lot of cash otherwise spent on bogus systems that lose money.
Kappow!! That’s how you sock it to ‘em!!
I’ve seen the video I haven’t joined, and I have no intention of doing so. I have seen some other reviews on autobot system and they all say pretty much the same thing about dodgy proof and screenshots being done in photoshop. I guess they think enough people will fall for it to make it worthwhile. Scumbags.
@Preston Falsifying bank statements to suggest a betting system makes lots of money from Betfair isn’t just “a bit suss” its downright fraud. You can’t justify it, EVEN if the product is good. A lie is a lie.
Either BJ is Graey Samuels or he is is serious need of some help. He’s lied to you and you still come on here and blow smoke up his a*se!
Paul
May I just ‘thank you’ for the recent publicity.
To date, enough new ABSX-IV members have signed up, to add to the making of a splendid past couple of days for all existing members.
One keen and long standing ABSX-IV member wrote in to me yesterday; he seemed to think that you were an ‘expert’ in Australian Trotting or ‘Harness Racing’ and had ‘spotted you’ in a recent meeting, televised by ATR.
May I ask, is this true?
Perhaps we could share expertise in this realm. Though I fear, you may exceed me in your ability therein.
Kind regards
Grey
Hello Grey, good to see you join the conversation, although you are somewhat premature with any gratitude for publicity, because so far you are the only person I have told about this post. My newsletter does not go out until early next month, and the only people who will have seen this post other than you, are those who have arrived at the site through day-to-day organic search traffic.
If you don’t mind, I prefer not to be drawn on anything ‘off topic’ and I was rather hoping instead you might address, for the benefit of my readers, any, some, or all of the points raised by the article?
@mutley I’m with you there. BJ seems to have an uncomfortably firm grasp on Grey Samuels opinions, and his daily schedule for that matter! Methinks one and the same person?
Hello Paul,
Not sure what to make of all this to be fair to both parties. Very well constructed article, but leaves much unanswered and the reader comes away without learning a great deal. However, perhaps it is the responsibility of Mr Samuels to answer those questions, and not you?
I know you have covered yourself by explaining you have not seen the product, but had you considered you might be doing this Autobet system a dis-service? Because anyone reading this piece will naturally find it “guilty by association”.
There is nearly always two sides to every story. Great site by the way, Best wishes, Terry
absx-iv is a loss making system sorry according to grey samuels its a methodology !!! and grey samuels is a con man.
i was a member of absx ,and i can tell you without any doubt this.
If you have a winning bet (dutch) highlighted by the methodology they will take the credit for it,if it loses, they will say its your own poor interpretation of the data presented..
in short…its always your fault if you lose following their system
In addition, the forum was closed on one occasion, why, for self advertisement by a member, or for foul or abusive language. no because someone mentioned they use a laying system. Forum closed, next day a diatribe from grey amounting to all that place lay bets are in league with the devil, and as absx-iv is a betting forum no lay comments were allowable…
i asked for stats to prove its success i got non, except for the randomly selected days results from the site (yeah right random). so i did my own testing,first day 34 races it selected 16 of which 8 won and 8 lost, now considering you are dutching the two favs,it doesnt take einstein to see you have lost money. infact 4.5pts, other days were similar.
avoid this , and this con artist…
Hi Jon, thanks for leaving your comments. I have to say they come as no surprise, and I’m truly sorry if you’ve lost out financially. From what you say, when you join his forum you can say whatever you like, as long as it passes the propaganda police. You might call Grey Samuels a bit of a cult. Great to hear from you, and hope you’ll contribute some more on the blog in future. Paul
Hi Paul,
I’m with you on this one,
I really dont think it’s too much to ask someone who is making such claims to give some sort of proof of who they actually are.(Whats his problem?)
Having said that, I fell for the the video after being bombarded by what I assume are affiliate sellers.And what I found with it was really interesting, because its not really a system/s but a number of different,albeit unknown filters/trends from which you can make your own mind up,which is what I liked about it.Basically the way I see the product is as a TOOL for creating your own system/s, but with most of the time consuming research already done for you !! (Nice) And probably the best part for myself had to be the members area bouncing different idea’s of each other in how to get the best results from using it.And if your prepared to put just a little work in I am giving it a thumbs up !!
And I’d like to give you a thumbs up as well, for the great work you do here !!
Hi Scooby, thanks for sharing a little further insight into the product.
I think if your prepared to film a video of yourself driving that type of car and you say you want to help people and are angered by crazy claims of other systems stating that they make money then you would want to set yourself apart from the rest by proving your identity, I have the basic system of ABSX an its bloody confusing lol
Ps i also meant to add if you were going to post this video to the internet for the world to see.
Paul — you were absolutely correct and reasonable to ask for confirmation of “Mr Grey’s” identity.
The fact that he failed to do so, and was quite rude to you in his cavalier refusal, is enough for me to reach for his ‘off button.’
There are too many like him preying on the gullible and desperate.
And all too often they fail to deliver on little tests of their integrity…
Prime candidates for retrospective birth control, methinks!
[By the way, I thought your write-up above was a classic -- grammatical, correct spelling and syntax, informative, logical flow. You are obviously a literate, thoughtful and well educated man.]